Another "Nice Guy" Shoots Himself in the Foot

To: Geoff
From: Natalie
Subject: Re: Why women don't like nice guys

I read your article about why women don't like nice guys. You don't know what your talking about.

Gee. How patronizing. Women don't know what they are talking about when it comes to their own experiences and expectations. How many men have YOU dated?

I'll admit, there might be some truth to what you said.

Some? What kind of lame almost-backpedal, almost-backhanded compliment is that? Keep your crumbs. They're stale and moldy.

You are basically saying that every nice guy is insecure.

No - you didn't read for context. You read your OWN projections and insecurities into it and created hyperbole as a result. Your credibility is already severely damaged and we are only 3 sentences into your missive.

Now I don't know which article you read, but by "Nice Guy" we aren't referring to *every* decent human male out there - we are referring to the whining, whinging types that complain because they can't get laid, can't find a relationship, and blame it all on the fact that it must be the fault of WOMEN because they just don't appreciate a "Nice Guy". They call themselves "Nice Guys" in order to try and prove to themselves what great guys they are. They are so busy feeling sorry for themselves, and blaming others that they don't see the very character flaws that women find such a turn off - like lack of self-esteem, objectification of women, patronizing behavior ("You don't know what your (sic) talking about."), spinelessness, misogyny, etc. They have NO idea how transparent they are.

What the hell is that? You are ignorant.

You have hit rock bottom and are clearly beginning to dig.

Every moral guy is not insecure.

Again - we didn't say that. The hyperbole (and resulting idiocy) is all *yours*.

I'm insecure because I don't like to chop little girls' heads off?

I'll bet you just don't have a CLUE what this statement really meant (From Nice Guys We Can Do Without): "Nice guys who are too STUPID to figure out any other way out of their so-called predicament except to conclude that they have to become woman-battering heavy drinkers and sports players."

What the fuck is wrong with you.

Absolutely nothing. I think you are projecting your own issues on us. You might get more out of the answer to that question if you direct it at yourself.

I will give you the truth.

You will give me your distorted perspectives, unsolicited.

The problem is that women are insecure.

Every person has insecurities to a greater or lesser degree. Women are no more insecure than men - they just are more open about admitting it when they are. (It's a socialization thing).

Your hyperbole once again further undermines your credibility if you are actually trying to make a rational argument here. If you are going for satire, however, I don't see it. Though I AM finding your conjecture and sophistry funny in a pathetic kind of way.

Women are physically weak.

Ahhh... they misogynistic roots start to surface.... So predictable...

Men are the stronger sex, so women look for security in their men. Security they don't have. This goes back thousands of years to the neanderthal days, 10,000 B.C. Women are attracted to men who they feel will protect them.

*sigh*. Why not stand around and beat your chest just a little bit more?

You know, *some* women are attracted to asshole men because of their issues - the same way some men are attracted to asshole women (or really STUPID women) because of THEIR issues. At the end of the day, however, I suppose it never occurred to you that women who identify themselves as "Heartless Bitches" (and even many who don't) are simply interested in a partner who can participate in a relationship as an EQUAL? Not some creep suffering from "rescuer" syndrome.

Why don't you think women like short guys?

I know plenty of women who don't give a fig about a man's height. The women I know who have a *preference* for taller men (which is NOT the same as "disliking" shorter men), do so because they themselves are tall and they are looking for someone they can look in the eye... And of course if a shorter man IS disliked, it couldn't POSSIBLY be anything to do with his BEHAVIOR and ATTITUDE... NOOOO.... it has to do with her wanting protection.

They don't feel safe with them.

Oh SPARE ME! This is so specious it's laughable. I can't believe you actually BELIEVE this horse shit.

It's not the guys fault, it's her insecurity that prevent's her from dating him.

Back to the typical whinging blame-the-girl syndrome we complained about in "Nice Guys We Can Do Without". How conveeeeenient to insinuate that she could only be uninterested in you because of your height! I once knew a woman who had a similar kind of warped mentality. She wanted to believe she was "fat" so that if someone didn't like her, she could blame it on them having an issue with her weight, rather than face the possibility that it was something to do with her BEHAVIOR or personality.

I have a 5'8 inch feminist friend who told me the same thing. She doesn't care how tall a guy is because she boxes,can throw a punch, and isn't a submissive bitch like most women.

"a submissive bitch like most women". What a telling statement.

The "Nice Guys We Can Do Without" are closet misogynists. They think they can hide it, but they are utterly transparent. Just like you.

They don't feel a nice guy will be able to protect them because he isn't wild, and they don't find him stimulating. It's not his problem, it's hers.

Back to blaming the woman when she doesn't find you attractive. You are just hitting all the points in rapid succession! Patronizing, controlling, blaming, misogynistic. Wow. Absolutely amazing.

I'll give you a mini-psych lesson (though it will probably be lost on you): If men and women wind up with partners who are assholes, it's largely because it's what they are USED to - NOT because they are looking for protection. They generally grew up in families that were screwed up and they are trying to "fix" the broken relationship they had with a parent through their adult relationships.

Go back to school.

Women need to date a man who makes her feel like a woman.

So women couldn't possibly be interested in a man because she wants an equal partner, companion and friend? Nah. She needs a man so she can feel like a *woman*... *snort*

You are a walking stereotype.

Remember that old Gloria Estefan song with the lyric " I'm helpless in your arms." She's admitting she likes a feeling of male domination.

Big deal. So Gloria writes a song, and you figure it applies to ALL women? How very LAME. Using that rationale, would you conclude that because some men like to go to a dominatrix, ALL men want to be dominated?

It arouses her. A guy who isn't a cocksucker doesn't give her that.

What kind of lame-assed pseudo-freudian bullshit IS this? All women are just weak and wanting to be dominated? What a moronic and inane statement.

SURE she did. You just have SO much credibility that ANYTHING you say MUST be true...

WOMEN even admit this.

One woman (supposedly) makes an assinine statement and you assume it applies to the WHOLE gender? Wow. Seriously fucked reasoning.

Women are too insecure to date a mild guy. If you NEED something from someone i.e. wildness, you're the one with the problem.

Somebody *definitely* has a problem here. And he's projecting it heavily on to others.

Ahh... now we weak, helpless females have "no control" over our own behavior and preferences. That makes it even easier to cop-out on your own responsibility doesn't it? You can just blame biology and nature while you are at it.

This letter is just a *scream*. It's guys like you that give HBI a reason to exist.

Researchers in Europe did a study of why women are attracted to tall men. The women said a tall man represents strength. Tall men mate more than short men.

*chuckle* Show me the "study"... Not that I'd give it much credence anyway.

I find it amusing that nobody looks at the BEHAVIOR of taller VS shorter men to see if they don't behave differently (which, in many cases they do) and if that might not contribute to why they are deemed to be less attractive. Have you ever heard of "short man's syndrome"? It's a label given to the guys who are shorter than average and have a huge attitude problem and gobs of insecurities as a result. The reason they are often so insecure is because of dominance games of OTHER MALES all through their growing up years. Regardless, for guys suffering from "short man's syndrome", it isn't their height that is unattractive, it's their BEHAVIOR.

The women need protection. That's because they're bitches, not women.

Wow. The misogyny steps out from behind the (very thin) veil.

A real woman doesn't need a man to make her feel like a woman. She shouldn't NEED anything, but herself.

Wait a minute. One minute you are talking about the gender as a whole and then you are giving your definition of what "real women" are. Ironically, it is PRECISELY the women who DON'T *need* a man who find the men suffering from "Nice-guyitis" so unattractive. It is precisely those kind of women that wrote the articles on HBI that you take such great exception to.

I am a nice guy. I'm not insecure at all. I could not be happier about myself. I'm attractive, articulate, and directly related to six kings.

BFD. Based on your writing, I'd say you are a creep.

How the fuck could I not be confident.

This could almost be seen as insight... Your writing highlights your insecurities all through it.

I'm not a dick.

Yes, you *are*.

I don't need to be.

Never-the-less, your letter has demonstrated very clearly why you are a dick. Head.

I'm completely secure with myself.

*snort*. Yeah. Right. "Self-Delusion Party. Table for one."

Guys that act like jerks are insecure.

The first bit of your self-analysis that is remotely accurate.

That's why they can't be themselves. Society tells them to act like macho jerks from an early age. I don't act like that

You just act like a different kind of jerk. (Not all jerks act "macho".)

because I'm not brainwashable.

I'm not even going to TOUCH that one... *laugh*

I used to know a guy who acted like a macho,confident dick and he even admitted he was insecure about his ability to fight. HA, HA, proven wrong. Antonio Sabato Jr., the male model admitted he was a nice guy. He's also very confident about his looks. What do you say to that?

Who cares? It does absolutely *nothing* to substantiate any of your "theories" or claims.

In fact, I think I've said all I need to, and I'm sure most if it went right over your head. And you, have very clearly said quite enough to expose YOURSELF for the amusement of many others.

heartlessly,
-Natalie

To: Geoff
From: Natalie
Subject: Re: Why women don't like nice guys

You are being way too superfluous in your speech. You take things way too seriously.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You said in your article that nice guys are insecure.

Bzzzt. You still don't get it. You are so desperate to prove the point on your head that you didn't really read for context. I'll try ONE more time to make it patently OBVIOUS. The articles talk about a particular *type* of insecure, troubled person who happens to label himself a "Nice Guy" - the articles are NOT directed at men who are decent caring human beings and might also be considered "Nice" by themselves or society.

Obviously, you have not dated all guys, so how are you so presumptuous to think you know all "nice" guys.

Never purported to. That was YOUR distorted interpretation so that you can push your own agenda.

You are trying to call me a misogynist for stating that most women I have seen in my life like jerks.

"Of course they are all like you. I don't notice the ones that are different. It's the human condition."

It might just surprise you that I think women are superior to men.

(except for the "bitches" of course *snort*) No. It doesn't surprise me at all. It's another stereotypical statement made by many closet misogynists.

I don't happen to think women are superior to men. I don't think men are superior to women.

I feel this way because they give birth and that is the most important thing in the world.

Especially if they are doing it in the service of raising YOUR hellspawn, eh?

How many guys will admit that women are more important?

I've heard lots of guys suffering from "Nice Guy" syndrome spout the same rhetoric.

Hardly any. I am not some typical chauvinistic asshole,

That's only one type of asshole. There are plenty more out there. Not all hatred is up front for all to see.

if I were, I would be ranting about how I thought men were superior.

Funny, most of the ranting I have seen from you has been about how women are mostly weak-minded, insecure "bitches" who can't think for themselves.

I have done research on anthropology, and other things. It just so happens that many women like a feeling of security, especially because I have heard thousands admit it.

You have heard *thousands* admit it? Wow. You must get around a lot. Your hyperbole alone (never mind the speciousness of your conclusions) undermines your credibility once again.

That's my opinion.

Wait a minute. I thought you were stipulating it as fact. Now you are admitting it is merely conjecture? Which is it? Where is the rigor in your scientific method?

You are a pedantic, panglossian pseudo-feminist. You negate human behavior, because you won't accept it.

*Laugh* I don't negate human behavior - hell, we highlight it all over the place on HBI. You, on the other hand, are attempting to divert the topic away from the original focus - which was the HBI rants about the problems we perceive with certain males who have psychological problems and insecurities, label themselves as "nice guys" and then blame women for all their relationship problems. This doesn't negate human behavior. In fact, for all your huffery-puffery about women wanting "security" - the very women who can't stand this kind of man don't want him precisely because they don't need a man for security. They don't want an obsequious man who will put them on a pedestal (and then later blame them for falling off of it). They don't want some guy looking to save himself through the love of a woman. They don't want some guy whose goal is to "rescue" her. They want an equal.

You obviously have deep animosity towards the male sex, regardless of what they do. It is your penchant.

Projection of your own gender issues. I have no tolerance for idiots of either gender.

Some women are natural losers.

Society encourages women to do a lot of stupid things. While some women act dumb, do stupid things, and go with the flow - so do some men. The problem doesn't exist with one gender. People are people. 50% are above average and 50% are below.

You are farcicle.

What kind of popsicle is that?

Don't try to make me out to be some male demon.

Hey, *you* dressed up for Halloween.

(I don't think you are a demon. You are just a typical example of "Nice Guy" syndrome. You want to believe you are deep and philosophical, but you are so shallow and transparent it comes out plainly in your writing. You are a walking stereotype and you don't even realize it.

Then again, I couldn't care less what you think.

So why write back to me? Why bother at all?

I am against organized religion because the bible states women should obey their husbands. That's fucking rediculous. You call me a hater of women?

Yep. It's underneath there - in a place YOU don't want to look.

Why do most women read the bible, then?

I don't think most women read the bible. In fact, most PEOPLE don't actually read the bible. It baffles me that *anyone* of intelligence is involved in any of the big 3 organized religions, but I also understand the human need for spirituality. Despite all the advances that feminism has wrought in the last 100 years, many women still don't understand their options and what is available to them. Is anyone to "blame"? No. It just takes time and generations for new memes to penetrate a society.

You say I'm brainwashed.

I'm saying it's a light load

If I'm brainwashed, how come I'm an agnostic vegan.

Memes come in all shapes and sizes.

Most people follow the heard.

Or herd.

I don't.

It's just a different, smaller herd. Of the especially stupid variety.

I think for myself, unlike you. You have inverted sagacity.

*snort*. You slay me! You spout moronic rhetoric and call it independent thought?

I have some harsh words for women because they degrade themselves by going into porn and stripping for nasty guys.

Of COURSE you do! Because in YOUR eyes, most women are stupid, submissive "bitches", right? And of course, they NEED your MANLY guidance and approval...?

I don't look at porn because I don't believe in it. How many guys can say that. 99% of men look at porn and objectify women.

(Completely leaving off the whole "gay porn" issue...) You really are desperate to prove what a great guy you are. Methinks you doth protesteth too much.

You pick and choose what you want to say about me.

I pick apart YOUR own comments and expose you. It's really easy. Like shooting fish in a barrel. With an uzi.

Many women act submissive and arbitrarily serve men, and you blame men for this.

No. I don't "blame" anyone. People have to accept responsibility for their own behaviors. Women for theirs, men for theirs. We weren't talking about blaming men in the "Nice Guy" articles - we were talking about the guys suffering from that syndrome taking responsibility for their own behavior and not BLAMING women for their own problems.

What, women can't think for themselves?

That's what YOU were saying earlier. Here at HBI, we think *every* adult is capable of thinking for themselves - it's a matter of whether or not they have the strength of character, and the right environment to do so and act upon it.

Do you have any idea how many women give a guy a blowjob just for the sake of pleasing him.

No, but apparently you think YOU do. You are just a wealth of statistics.

You know what - some women actually LIKE giving blowjobs. So do some MEN.

They don't ask for anything in return, and the guy leaves them.

Many *people* in our society get used because they haven't got their own motivations and self-worth figured out. Many "Nice Guys" get used too. I don't see how this has ANY relevancy whatsoever to why "nice guys" can't get dates with intelligent, responsible women.

They end up used sluts.

Whoa! for a guy who thinks women are superior and doesn't believe in the bible, why would you have such a puritanical approach to sex? What about the women who just want sex and no attachment? Are they not allowed to think for themselves, make their own choices?

When I talk about women being insecure bitches without self respect, this is who I'm talking about. They are sequacious.

Once again (I ought to keep a counter going) your hyperbole undermines any credibility you might have. And this rhetoric has NOTHING to do with guys suffering from "Nice Guy" syndrome getting their OWN shit together.

How many guys go around giving oral sex to a woman without expecting anything in return?

*I've* met quite a few...

NONE!!!!!

You obviously don't travel in the same circles *I* travel in.

Feminists don't admit these things, because they(you) want to blame men for everything.

I think our audience is going to be able to read quite clearly who is "blaming" here.

You are sexist towards yourself for thinking that the women who date jerks do it for some childhood reason, or past abuse. Typical liberal response.

An agnostic vegan calling someone a "typical liberal"?

Blame everything on something else.

Ah... no - there is no blame for it. Just because someone has a history doesn't excuse or accept bad behavior as a result. It merely points to the fact that there are psychological reasons and predictors. You posited that the reason some women chose jerks was because they felt the man was better able to protect them. I countered with a different, more plausible (and psychiatrically accepted) reason for that behavior. Conversely, some men choose women who are jerks because of THEIR past history. In either case, the individuals have to wake up and get their shit together if they ever want to figure out how to be truly happy.

Also, how the fuck do you know why the women like them, are you EVERY woman?

I could ask YOU the same question regarding your sweeping generalizations.

You're saying a woman can't think for herself and perceive that the guy is a jerk on her own.

Ah. No. I never said that. YOU just did, however. HBI encourages ALL women to stand up for themselves, take care of themselves, and be responsible for their own actions and behavior. That is why we encourage them to SEE and notice behaviors that may lead to the guy being manipulative, controlling and abusive.

Obviously, you ostensibly think that wome

Dunno what that that incomplete thought was supposed to contain - but I'll tell you this. You are SO incapable of reasoning beyond the end of your own nose that any anti-female commentary that you would attribute to me is clearly a projection of your own troubled agenda.

Happy dissecting
your loyal friend

Typical passive-aggressive too. What is REALLY pathetic is that guys like you actually think you are being funny. You ARE amusing - just not in the way you think.

heartlessly,
-Natalie

P.S. Yes, we ARE laughing AT you...

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