The latest comments from and about Nice Guys...

From: beechamj@cs.man.ac.uk
Subject: Makes me want to puke
Date: 24 Apr 2006

(or "Nice Guys" We Can Live Without...): Manipulative guys who are attracted to a woman who has certain qualities they don't have, and then spend all their effort trying to undermine those qualities and destroy them.

For instance, my (promptly ex-) boyfriend who commented on the fact that I had confidence in myself and spoke my mind honestly, then started saying it wasn't really fair to expect him to be assertive or say his honest opinion because it "wasn't really him", and then a couple of months later came out with "oh, you can tell you've been to a private school, you have that confidence that they teach there. My friend Mark went to private school and they showed him how to act confident, it's not really part of his personality at all". (Apart from the obvious stupidity of this, when you know the truth about some serious shit that went on for me at home during my school years, and when you know what my experience of school was like as a result, this statement would be almost laugh-out-loud funny if it wasn't a bit sick. But of course he wouldn't listen when I tried to explain).

No sweetheart, it's EARNED. It comes from learning to stand up to people who are intimidating you, and from refusing to play along with manipulative bullshit - something which little compliant, cowardly, jealous, desperate-to-please you would apparently never dream of doing in a thousand years. You've spent 27 years living with Mummy and Daddy while I've been out in the world taking care of myself, but that couldn't possibly be the reason I have a personality of my own and you don't, could it? Noooo, it must be your school's fault...

Jo

(who is still blind-sided, gutted and shaken up over this and other spiteful underhandedness, and grateful for your article on emotional abusers which brought some much-needed sanity back into my life)

Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006
From: "- -"
Subject: What makes me puke?

Your website makes me puke. That is, HBI. I came by it incidentally, referred by wikipedia

Why?

Simple. It's a pit of misandry. The articles in question I was searching for were about on the so-called "nice guy". What I found was page after page of ridicule and women revelling in it. Scorn and bile drip off the page. I hate to use an old and overuse cliche, but... it is so appropriate.

[Looks like we hit a raw nerve. Heh. heh. heh.]

The nice guy is somewhat of a myth. I won't dispute the type exists without a reason. However, it is a myth that the nice guy is a loser and unattractive to women. The "nice guy" is used as a catch-all phrase for any good man who fails.

[Somebody didn't do their reading. This site makes it very clear what the use of the term "NiceGuy" pertains to here.]

[Then they aren't "NiceGuys" by our definition. I can't say this enough to all of you: READ. FOR. CONTEXT. It's really really obvious when someone comes in with their own agenda and is UNABLE to ascertain what is REALLY being said here.]

And that is what is sad. Some men who are "nice" only because they are inexperienced, or not confident. And that is it. They might require provoking, or the pursuit of a strong woman. They can be the perfect one for a woman pressured to believe in the catch-all phrase and stereotype of the "nice guy", to believe she should shun them at all costs.

[Ahhhh... THAT'S it - we are supposedly brainwashing women into shunning inexperienced insecure men. Like those women couldn't think for themselves. This whole section might not actually exist BECAUSE whiny, self-absorbed "NiceGuys" wrote in to complain about how all women are Bitches and don't appreciate them... nope. We are out to prevent those poor souls from ever getting a date. Yep. That's us.]

[BZZZZT. You are apparently using your own dictionary and not ours. Here's a thought: Try actually READING this section. Without a hidden or overt agenda and a chip on your shoulder.]

[*sigh* How DO they get so clueless. Is it not clear that this whole section is about how the "NiceGuy" blames women and should be looking at himself? It isn't about why women are unhappy, or can't get a date. It isn't about women "blaming" men - it's about telling the guys to stop blaming US for their own failings.]

[I'm not responsible in any way for your inability to have a healthy relationship.]

[But nowhere do we say anything about that. Once again, this person is coming from some weird agenda-laden place.]

Women are cutting themselves short by pursuing a single type of guy.

[This kind of comment is just so asininely out of context that it's laughable...]

Date: Wed, 3 May 2006
Subject: Male Flame form : Descartes

COMMENTS: I think you're all sexy assertive women. But, I think you've all been a bit hurt in the past by yes, men. Why else would you use the excuse to rant at men as a motivation for a website?

[Gee, you sure have us nailed. That's ALL the site is about. Fortunately there are so many DORKS like you out there to rant about.]

[Try thinking with your brain instead of your dick.]

[This section is about guys who complain that women are at fault for why they can't get a date. Why SHOULD we distinguish between the two?]

[Did we say that we encourage objectification in either gender?]

[Perhaps the guys who kept writing in and WHINING about it? Perhaps the guys who won't stop humping our legs and take NO for an answer?]

[*Laugh*. You missed the point entirely. Why is it that if a woman makes an assertion about the kinds of behavior she DOESN'T like and doesn't want to have to put up with, she is hurt, bitter, and, dare I say it, a "Heartless Bitch"?]

[Superficial readers see very little of substance despite the depth of the material.]

[I've seen no evidence of that.]

Date: Thu, 4 May 2006
Subject: Male Flame form : Yvan

COMMENTS: Hey gals! Cool site. Found it very entertaining, although you scare me a little. Please be gentle.

Anyway, really enjoy your site. Quite entertaining. Weird concept. Great time waster for insomniacs like me. So I figure I'd put my own two cents in the debate, for what it's worth ($0.02!)

So I'm just going to put on my full body armour and prepare for the worse. Go ahead, I won't cry.

I can kind of sympathize with the Nice Guy and his affliction. I was once kind of there myself nad it's a twisted little world. Maybe I can bring some insight into it, in the hope one of these poor souls might see the light. At the same time, it'll be therapeutic for me.

Here's how it works, for the most part: insecure guy with little self-esteem gets this idea that if only this one girl could be his (Yep, just like a sofa or T.V. can be yours) it will make him whole and worthy again and all will be good with the world. So he fosters all his attention on an unsuspecting girl who's being nice to him because she happens to be a nice person. At first, she might have some genuine interest in him, but he's so grabby and clingy she quickly runs away, leaving him broken-hearted and wondering (ALL TOGETHER): Why do nice guys never get the girl?

Well, for one thing, guys - and get this in your head - you're not in love with that girl. You're in love with the idea of being in love. You're also horny and lonely. There's nothing wrong with being horny and lonely, happens to the best of us. It becomes a problem when you don't face the issue head-on and won't even admit it to yourself - much less another person. You see, you can't possibly be in love with someone you're not at least trying to communicate openly with and there is no such thing as love at first sight (Lust at first sight, yes). Love takes time and communication. It is to be grown and nurtured like a garden. The garden will only grow in an nourishing athmosphere and will suffocate in the absence of absolute mutual freedom. In other words it cannot be rushed, nor forced. Nor can you predict with certainty if it will flourish. It is always a gamble. So grabbing on to a girl and saying: OH! Love me ! Love me ! We must fall in love! is terribly misguided (and creepy - it will nip your garden in the bud)

Also, one last thing - and this can't be stressed enough - looking for a girlfriend is not a full-time occupation. First, it will get you in a horribly self-defeating cycle and second, if having a girlfriend is all you ever think about, what on earth will you possibly talk about when you finally do get a woman to sit down with you for an hour? The weather?

Get a hobby. Exercise. HAVE A JOB. Get involve in stuff. Study a subject. Repair computers. Play an instrument. Read books. Whatever. Don't just sit around waiting for HER to magically appear and save you from your inner emptiness. Acquire substance.

[I think there's an Auntie Dote column with exactly that advice somewhere. Cinderella is NOT going door-to-door with a glass codpiece looking for her Prince Charming. Get out. GET A LIFE. Do something real, and positive and learn to interact with women as PEOPLE instead of seeing every woman as a potential mate.]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no... Pursue something you are genuinely interested in. For yourself. In order to grow as a human being. Don't go around studying the Victoria Secrets catalogue figuring you can talk about that. She'll think you're gay. (Not that there's anything wrong with that... But that's not what you're trying to, here). You need to do something that will make you feel better about yourself and that will give you substance. And then, you'll realize you don't actually NEED another person to define you. Strangely enough, that's the only way you will reach a path to love. By rejecting its necessity. You may actually never fall in love in your life, maybe it's just not your destiny, but at least you'll be a whole person and you'll stop walking around beating yourself up.

And just one more thing: Please, please, please, for Heaven's sake, drugs and alcohol are neither an occupation nor a hobby. In fact, they will make you considerably less attractive. And the people you will attract are usually people you wouldn't want in your life. (I'm not talking about smoking a doob now and then and enjoying scotch - but don't ever make these things an occupation

Peace out. Cheers. Thanks for listening to my rant. God bless you all.

[Yvan is a smart cookie. Yvan GETS it. Do You?]

Date: Thu, 04 May 2006
From: "dex Otaku"
Subject: another mail from a male [thanking you, in fact]

Your site is the perfect reminder to me, until I successfully address some of my majour issues at least, of why one of my requirements for living is to remain single and chaste.

I've been surfing the articles/columns for about an hour now, and I can say with complete confidence that your site is now among my main places to go for a reality check when I'm feeling sorry for myself for my past history of terrible relationships, and, well, blah blah blah [seems the best way to sum all that up, somehow].

Anyway. Keep up the excellent work! And thank you.

Now if only long-term abstinence didn't affect prostate health.

[There's this little thing called Masturbation. You should try it.]

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