The latest comments from and about Nice Guys...
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005
From: Nonoy Batuta
Subject: Hi
Hi,
This would kinda sound stupid but here it goes...I've accidentally
stumbled upon your website and read about the whole "Nice Guy"
articles,and yes I consider myself one of those guys(too bad).I need
help but I think it wouldnt be appropriate to ask someone who is busy
doing more important things in her life(sorry about my English Im from
Asia >_<).I think if there something to be changed it
should start with me right?.Anyway thanks for HBI,I really learned a
lot,although its hard to start all over again about how you should think
and how you should be like in a womans life...well its like being born
again*sigh*.Enough with the drama crap!anyway thanks again and more
power to your site!(or to whoever contribute to this site)
Yours,
Fart of Asia(lol)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 07:01 -0500
Subject: Male Flame form : Rob
COMMENTS: Just wanted to say thanks for not generalising on the fact all
"nice guys" are the same, just wish I didnt have to fill out the silly
form just to say "thankyou".
Just seems people will to easily bitch
about something and forget that there are exceptions to the rule. Could
you make the point more clear as it is probably the reason why you get
so many men and perhaps a few women bitching on this websiteHope I
dont get flamed
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:00 -0500
Subject: Male Flame form : Nicholas
COMMENTS: Well, just a quick note. My slut of an ex-girlfriend tried to
use your Nice Guy article to defend her rather indiscreet hijinx. I
promptly told her I would rather study my own shit for portents of the
future than read a blog written by an emotionally unstable spinster
It was good for a laugh, if nothing else. You should probably have that
cynicism checked at the door if you plan on rejoining the rest of us
human beings
From: David DeWorsop
Subject: Thanks! (no, honestly, thank you.)
Hi -
I just thought I'd write and tell you all how much I appreciate your
site. I first stumbled on it about 2 years ago when looking for an
adequate rebuttal to this
(http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~jenf/writing/rant04.html) "wonderful"
essay on nice guys. I have to say, you guys definitely are far better
at providing honest and direct answers than this mealy mouthed crap.
I remember sending out your article answering the "nice guy" question
to any buddy of mine sending me this
I won't lie, I used to pretty much BE the stereotypical "nice guy" in
high school in that I was self-pitying, self-centered, etc (though, I
never actually started dating til my senior year of high school). It
took about one year in college and a couple of false starts to realize
my mistakes of self pity and idiocy. Granted I might come off as a
bit of a hardass (I don't deal well with stupidity) these days, but at
least I'm honest with myself and everyone else. Reading your site's
opinions definitely help me affirm what I had learned from personal
experience
I just thought that you might like to know that your opinions are
appreciated and well received. And that women aren't the only ones
who get pissed off at nice guys... I've had to yell at a couple of my
friends to grow a spine when they spout that shit off at me - though
I'm starting to feel some people will never learn until they have
first hand experience proving this point. At any rate, I think I'm
just blabbing on right now. I'll end by saying that I wish more
people (not just women) thought like you all. The world might be a
slightly more sane place then!
Doorstop
PS - I think I might have sent this through the Flame Male thing.
Though the form was funny as hell, and fun to fill out too, I think
this might get through to you better
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005
From: Eric Berend
Subject: Praise and cuation
Dear H.B.S. (Heartless Bitch Supreme),
Your site is a blast. The lack of PC-itis disease that
infects so many other commentators is quite
refreshing. Obviously, the "wimpy" 'nice guy' topic is
a real motivation for your honest expression in this
forum. With the emphasis you have placed on this,
however, it is possible you have over-looked certain
aspects of the situation
As boys grow up, they are forced to develop and live
in an environment that is rampant with bullying abuse
of power, and has many mechanisms, social and
official, to perpetuate this psychology. Even the
current criminal regime that has been allowed to gain
power in the US government, now perpetuates this
psychology. Girls MAY have a social equivalent, I
don't pretend to know the savagery of your own
experiences. But, IMO, you are not recoqnizing this
aspect sufficiently, and therefore not taking it into
account. (...and no crap of "wah, wah" here, whining
is NOT my purpose)
Few boys or men have an ideal path towards confident
maturity, in the changing milieu of the past three
generations. Men have recently been presented with
much more contradictions of behavioral expectations
than women, where even though one may be shallow,
untrustworthy, and callous, everything's cool anyway,
baby..."Grrrrl Power" and all that. Generally, as a
male, one is exhorted to "be tough", "be a man", so
often even when just four to six years old, with less
physical basis to support socialization skills than
girls (refer to the book "Sex and the Brain" and other
works in this area). Seldom is a boy presented with a
balanced, comprehensive view when being shown or
taught issues of assertion and comportment
What about compassion? What about kindness? These
qualities are not supported in any consistently
healthy fashion, so great is the underlying fear not
to encourage "wimpishness" in a boy, that this society
has created a bifurcation that subtly equates bullying
with success, and kindness with weakness. Since there
is no integration of these seemingly contradictory
forces, why should there be such great expectation of
balance and maturity occurring automatically in men?
This does not happen in some mystical 'dork' vacuum;
it is the challenge offered to males, whether we see
it or not, to figure it each out on our own, unless
lucky enough to have a healthy strong mentor or role
model.
In addition, I am sure you have noticed the
denigration of men and boys that has become so
prevalent in mass media, in television commercials and
sitcoms, in movies, and print media such as greeting
cards. If millions of girls can become affected with
eating disorders over cruelly unrealistic images and
expectations, shall we expect that boys and men are
immune to these effects, as well?
So if you were subjected to a situation where media
imagery frequently presented you with ridicule just
for being female, and conflicting influences from the
authority figures in your life, along with the
menacing and physical threats that are common in boys'
lives, together with a lag in social development that
seems natural to most scientific observers, AND the
raging hormone-bath of adolescence, how would you get
it so perfectly right, so soon? You haven't had two
generations of so many of the other gender hating you,
holding you responsible for the actions of others of
your own kind, and then been condemned without fair
consideration
As a woman, gifted as you are with some natural social
advantages,
knowing yourself and these emotions may
seem so obvious, and that is terrific. But it is all
too easy to deride another when you have not
experienced their life. Amidst this ease, you may be
succumbing to impatience.
For a boy or man, it is more difficult than you
suppose, to get it right.
With so many sometimes
contradictory messages about male behavior, and
without the social check girls often get with each
other in their naturally greater genetic communicative
basis through childhood and adolescence, it is much
more confusing than it might seem; in particular, when
many, if not most mothers teach their sons the
language and wording of statements such as "women want
a nice man"; with so many television talk shows,
advice columns, and websites, where when asked "who do
you want to meet and have a relationship with?", women
often say they want a "nice guy".
YOU and other women
are usually able to recognized the 'codespeak' here:
"nice guy" really means "good man". But most men do
not: the words expressed are taken literally
In this situation, it should not be surprising that
too few men have it "just right", or there would not
be so many 'nice guys' for you to express such disgust
about. After all, if the phenomenon were rare or
uncommon, your site would not have much web traffic,
nor over 20, now stretching towards 30 pages of
responses. So obviously, you have hit a nerve
As a man, this bifurcation cannot be ignored, and for
the sake of day-to-day getting along and fitting in,
most men take their cues from the social environmentWith little basis for assurance in the absence of a
strong mentor, a man with compassion tends to err
towards the side of caution, especially having been
bombarded with such denigration and censureship in the
media, and by many women. So, like it or not, to
become a whole male human being, most men have to go
through some sort of "nice guy" phase, as part of the
process of working it out on one's own. It may be
frustrating, it may be awkward and ugly, but it is
unavoidable for most, in the process of men's
self-discovery
To this end, and despite your impatience, your site
performs a very valuable function, cutting through the
clutter and telling it like it is. It makes a big
difference for a man, receiving these messages from a
woman, who is not a traditionalist nor merely a
feminist bigot with a hate-filled axe to grind (...too
many men like this, too...deplorable). Very helpful
for any man who is working through these issues, who
has the courage to face the problem with a
determination to succeed
Best Regards,
Eric Berend
From: "Andre C."
Subject: Nice guys, bane of my existence
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005
Hello Heartless Bitches,
I just know this is a bad idea, but I'm feeling especially stupid tonight.
The thing is, I'm a nice guy. Yes, often I'm the loser kind with the
awkward sense of timing, the kind and helping demeanour with the jealous and
passive aggressive flip side... I know all about the compulsive stupidity of
nice guys, and the icky ways it screws up our relationships with women. We
don't like it any more than you do
But I'm not sure how being heartless bitches to us is any more mature
So here's some flamebait for your amusement--ideas for dealing with loser
nice guys:
1) Stop castrating them. Maybe you don't want to help them, but why knock
them down except to satisfy some need of your own to feel superior?
2) Meaningful feedback. If a nice guy does something wrong; here's a
thought--TELL HIM!
Don't make up excuses if you don't to see him like a
coward. Don't ask him if you can just be friends. Don't ridicule him
behind his back. That doesn't mean you have to hold his hand. Just look
him in the eye and tell him exactly what he's done wrong and how he can
improve.
If you want these guys to act like adults, you have to treat them
like adults and behave like adults yourselves
3) If you really really don't like nice guy losers, then round up a posse
and hunt us all down. Please, for the love of Pete, put us out of our
misery. We don't want to be losers any more than you want us around, so
please, shoot us. But then don't be upset when you live in a world
populated entirely by assholes
Ah... Let the flaming begin..
Sincerely,
-Andy C
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