The "Nice Guys" archive

Comments - round 36
Comments - round 35
Comments - round 34
Comments - round 33
Comments - round 32
Comments - round 31
Comments - round 30
Comments - round 29
Comments - round 28
Comments - round 27
Comments - round 26
Comments - round 25
Comments - round 24
Comments - round 23
Comments - round 22
Comments - round 21
Comments - round 20
Comments - round 19
Comments - round 18
Comments - round 17
Comments - round 16
Comments - round 15
Comments - round 14
Comments - round 13
Comments - round 12
Comments - round 11
Comments - round 10
Comments - round 9
Comments - round 8
Comments - round 7
Comments - round 6
Comments - round 5
Comments - round 4
Comments - round 3
Comments - round 2
Comments - round 1.5
Comments - round 1
Nice Guys = BLEAH!
Nice Guys we can do without

The latest comments from and about Nice Guys...

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:31:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Right on
From: michelle@mixmasterschmoopy.com

You know, it's a shame that a lot of the people who are writting you angry emails have either missed the point, or aren't introspective enough to see themselves in some of your articles. Furthermore, it'd be nice if some of the angry so called "nice guys" could see that what they're going through isn't just limited to men.

Your story about the guy who grew a spine could easily have been a story about my life. And I'm a woman. And I'll be the first to say that when I was whining and wondering why nobody appreciated my niceness what I was really saying was "why won't someone give into my passive agresiveness and also couldn't you all please validate me?".

It's not that underneath it all I wasn't nice. It's just that when you have no confidence, whether it's concious or not, you end up playing a lot of emotional games with people, and THAT, I think is part of the turn off for women and other human beings, when dealing with the so called "nice guy" syndrome.

When you start liking yourself, and taking responsibility for your own happiness then you no longer need other people to help create your personality or your life. You don't need their approval to validate your existance, and then you're free to be truely "nice". Because you no longer need or expect anything in return for your actions. Coincidentaly once you are no longer are needy, it seems like it's a lot easier to find people willing to date you, because lo and behold, you have a personality, and are actually interesting.

Thanks for putting together such an interesting website. I've been enjoying reading through all the articles and comments.


From: Sephir1020@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:26:28 EST
Subject: A simple compliment.

HBI is one of the most refreshing--and blatantly honest--stances on both gender roles and all-too-common personality traits that I've ever seen.

And, in retrospect, I'm fairly certain that I learned a thing or two from reading the Nice Guy collection and ended up a more confident (daresay, maybe even better?) man for it.


From: "Akechi Kaitou" akechi_kaitou@hotmail.com
Subject: Loved your Nice Guys article ^^
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:56:47 +0000

I used to be a Nice Guy myself, and Goddamn did you explain it perfectly. I totally agree think you're sexy.


From: "Allen Johnston"
Subject: Nice Guy Response
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:44:28 -0600

Hi,

I hope you are fair and also post this response to your "nice guy" articles. Sorry, but I'm not going to espouse a point of view that is so extreem that it will be easy to poke fun at or to claim that I've totally agreed with you.

The thing is, the reason there are so many nice guys lately is because of women's doing.

[Oh, I see.... It's all OUR fault again.]

They bitch and moan all the time about needing a sensitive guy that is in touch with his feelings and all that and these guys are only trying to do the right thing. Yes, they are insecure... but only because they aren't strong enough to avoid the guilt placed on them by the women in our culture for simply being a man with manly desires and urges.

["manly desires and urges"... oh my! Buddy, as far as I recall, the church is the primary deliverer of "guilt" trips for that sort of thing. Not Women.]

Yes, the nice guys have problems, but it's only because they are getting confusing signals from women. And women really do complain about a lot of shit... THEY are just as manipulative collectively as any man they've accused of.

[A manipulative collective. Yep. We're ALL out to get you. And confuse you. It's just SO much fun, and we don't have anything better to do with our pretty little heads, after all...]

You got it right on about the nice guy syndrome, but you are being overly harsh considering the fact that it's your collective fault and you are also suffering because of it.

[I love how these whiners don't want to accept ANY responsibility for their own behavior. It has GOT to be someone else's fault.]

But, hey, you got a gimick here, but it's still based on a kind of game, pretending like it's not your own doing... changing the rules as you go along just to see men blindly follow your instructions like a dumb dog.

[Oh yeah. That's what I live for. To see men blindly following my instructions. Man do YOU have a complex! Sounds to me like you've been PLAYED and you don't want to own up to the fact that you are a SUCKER. Newsflash pal: Players of BOTH genders exist. ]

Men, just be yourself. It has nothing to do with being civilized. You can't change 10 million years of evolution.

[But you CAN get an education. Being a spinless, whimpering blame-women-for-your-inadequacies sucker is a LEARNED behavior. You can UNLearn it.]

Love and caring will come when it's time.

[... when you start taking responsibility for your own behavior...]

Don't apologize for being a man. God made you that way. There is a happy medium that needs to be found. Just don't go to the other extreem and be an asshole. Don't try and figure women out too much. They are riddles that arne't made to be solved, just enjoyed and chucked at from time to time. Just be comfortable in your own skin. It's OK to lust after a woman and do it openly in your own way.

[... I really do wonder what he means by "do it openly in your own way"...? I think this guy needs to masturbate and get over it...]

There will be a woman out there that will like your style, or lack of style.

[It seems endemic that guys with NO sense of style, lust after women who HAVE a sense of style, and then complain bitterly when those women aren't interested. It's that whole over-inflated sense of entitlement thing. Just because you are a man, does NOT mean women owe you ANYTHING. Period.]

Thank you,
Al


From: WhiteSoxRule9@aol.com
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 04:15:15 EST
Subject: Thank You

My name is Alex, and an hour ago, I considered myself a nice guy. I was feeling sorry for myself and was looking for a site for other "nice guys" who I could bitch and moan about pretty much about how nice we are and how bitchy girls are for not liking us ( AKA I lacked testicles when it came to girls and wanted to talk with other guys with the same affliction). I then stumbled upon your rants about "nice guys". My immediate reaction when I saw the title was to get my boxers in a twist and I was ready to send you a spiteful, emotional, whiny little bitch email about how its not my fault that women don't like nice guys. Then I read the article. I'm pretty sure a 2x4 to the head would have also knocked the message into me just as well, but the article saved me a lot of bruises. It called my bullshit to the letter. I am the guy that let my girl friends always go to to complain about their problems, and I felt that because I was nice to them, they owed me more than just friendship. Like the article said, I wasn't really a nice guy, I was just a guy using a very unsuccessful method of getting laid. My girl friends always told me that I was such a nice guy, so I told myself that it was someone else's fault that I didn't have a girlfriend. I would like to thank you for the blinding flash of truth tonight. I now know that I just need to grow some cajones and I'll be doing much better in terms of getting a girlfriend. I never thought a website called "Heartless Bitches International" would have helped me in my love life, but then again, I did also think being a "nice guy" could get me some action. Thank you.

[Funny how so many Nice Guys talk about "getting some action". I wonder if you really HAVE graduated yet, to a place where you no longer objectify women....]

Alex


From: spiatek@tribune-democrat.com
Subject: re: nice guys section
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:00:11 -0500

As I read over your "nice guys" section, I though "Every guy who professes to be a nice guy should be forced to read this." My opinion is formed because even more than most women, I am sick of hearing guys complain that they are so nice, but eternally screwed. It has nothing to do with being a nice guy, it has everything to do with a total lack of confidence and self respect.

I can't blame a sane woman for not wanting to date such a guy. When it comes to who I date, the woman must be a confident and competent individual. I can't stand the whatever-you-say-or-want-to-do-is-fine-with-me woman. God that's annoying. Relenting every so often and compromising is a good thing. But being an outright doormat is not attractive. Guys that like those kinds of women, I have found, have severe confidence issues of their own.

I have some friends that subscribe to the screwed nice guy line of thinking. I'm sick of hearing "Women don't know what they want." Yes they do. They want someone they can respect. They're really not much different than men. My one "nice guy" friend went a year holding a secret and one-sided love affair with an oblivious and quite nice young lady. When we were all out together, it seemed fairly obvious to me that she liked him. And even though I made these points to him, because he lacks any semblance of confidence, he never asked her out. And when she recently turned up with a boyfriend, my friend was pissed. I had nothing else to tell him other than it was his own fault. To his credit, he eventually had to agree.

I've also found that nice guys view women as unattainable prizes. The one thing I have learned is if you treat the like people, they tend to respond in kind. Of course, on both sides of the dating battle, you're sure to approach a guy/gal with a serious superiority complex who will question why you even breath the same air. Guess what? That's exactly who you don't want to waste any of your relatively few minutes on earth with.

Then there is the whole other classification of nice guy who is completely lost on what the problem is. You know this guy. He's 32 and still spends his Saturday night playing D&D online in his mother's basement. This guy is a lost cause, and probably isn't even really a "nice guy." He uses it as an excuse to explain his shortcomings such as not showering, not showing any concern for his appearance, being completely uninteresting (ie. talks about cars and only about cars. Can substitute computers, video games, sports, himself, work, etc for cars) and not showing any kind of appropriate respect for anyone. This guy is frightening because he really thinks he's a catch. He may even be physically attractive, but (like I say about so many women I meet) when he opens his mouth he becomes progressively uglier.

Now, I am not saying I am perfect or some sort of "stud." I'm not. But I even surprise myself at times at the types of women I have scored second dates with. Way out of my league. So, if I may, some advice to men that I hope you will pass along on your forum:

Do

- Become interesting. Read, please. And not just SI or Car & Driver. Read a little bit on many topics. Be able to intelligently chime in on a number of conversations. Women like smart guys.

- keep your body in decent shape. You don't have to be a bodybuilder, but being 50 pounds overweight is disgusting.

[The current societal obsession with weight is what is disgusting. The problem with Nice Guys isn't what weight they are - it's about their skewed and disproportionate expectations.]



-be humble.

-be slightly self-denigrating, but not self-loathing. It's attractive to show some humility, it is not attractive to bitch and moan about how horrible your life is.

[Self-denigrating? Why on earth? Be REAL. Not Facile.]



Don't

-dominate the conversation. She's there for a reason. This isn't an interview

-talk about past relationships, even if she asks, on the first few dates. Change the subject if she asks or be as vague as possible.

[Ok, this is just bizzare]

- fawn all over her on the first date. Being complimentary of her dress or appearance once - JUST ONCE - is a good thing. Telling her over and over how beautiful she is, well, that's plain annoying.

- insist on spending every waking moment with her. It's just creepy.

[Agreed.]

- portray yourself as emotionally needy.

[How about "Don't BE emotionally needy"? If you are self-sufficient and secure, you won't portray yourself any other way.]

- portray yourself as superior

Shawn Piatek


Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:29 -0500
Subject: Male Flame form : Tom Cooper

Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by
(tom_cooper@hotmail.com) on Thursday, March 3, 2005 at 07:29:39

Name: Tom Cooper

COMMENTS: I haven't had a girlfriend for about 5 years and your site is really not helping. The more bitches you recruit, the less women there are out there to give me a chance. I am currently working my way through your archives and will be sending a more detailed rebuttal of your bullshit philosophy when I'm done.

Yours

Cunt

[Gee, I can't imagine WHY no woman would be interested in you. You're so CHARMING.]



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