Mark finds the perfect woman (again)
The following exchange is an exchange between Mark Margaretten (of "Mark's Apology Letter Generator" and "Mark's Bitch Letter Generator" fame),
and a young woman who has sucked-up so much idealogy that she didn't have any room left for a sense of humor.
If only she could get over that constricted-sphincter syndrome...
(We love ya Mark. Don't ever change. )
To: Pita
From: mark@karmafarm.com (Mark Margaretten)
Subject: Re: what are you thinking?
>Mark,
>I find it highly offensive in this day and age that
>you make the sweeping generalization you do about women
>and say that they never apologize-and that you name your
>page Mark's Bitch Letter Generator. Obviously, you admit
>to your personal failing in saying that you could not bring
>yourself to write an apology letter from a woman's point of
>view becasue they never apologize. Perhaps they do not
>apologize to you due to your huge insensitivity and
>aggregious sense of humor. Women have it hard enough in the
>world today fighting against sexual stereotypes and macho
>males without having assinine postings to the world wide web
>which serve only to our detriment. Perhaps you were
>attempting to achieve some level of humor, I assure you, it
>missed its mark. Take some advice and scrap the page. If
>nothing else, you won't get any more nasty e-mails like this
>one.
it should come as no suprise to you to learn that I am
getting divorced. Frankly, my own relationship failures
occupy most of my daily introspection, and I find that
developing a Bitch Letter Generator is far more cleansing
for me than to simply write a page which says " My life
sucks.... etc."
Mark
--------------------------------------------
To: mark@karmafarm.com (Mark Margaretten)
From: Pita
Subject: Re: what are you thinking?
Dear Mark,
I am sorry to hear about your divorce. That is a terrible thing
to go through. (My parents are in the process of divorcing after
25 years.) I do not, however, think that you need to put a "Bitch
Letter Generator" on the web for all the world to access. It is
entirely in poor taste. I do not advocate that their be any type
of laws to govern what is posted to the internet, but I would like
to think that in their own rights people will exercise some taste
and discretion. Would you like it if you were to come across a
page called "Scumbag Letter Generator?" I think not.
--------------------------------------------
To: Pita
From: mark@karmafarm.com (Mark Margaretten)
Subject: Re: what are you thinking?
>I am sorry to hear about your divorce. That is a terrible thing
>to go through. (My parents are in the process of divorcing after
>25 years.) I do not, however, think that you need to put a "Bitch
>Letter Generator" on the web for all the world to access. It is
>entirely in poor taste. I do not advocate that their be any type
>of laws to govern what is posted to the internet, but I would like
>to think that in their own rights people will exercise some taste
>and discretion. Would you like it if you were to come across a
>page called "Scumbag Letter Generator?" I think not.
>
May I ask you why you visited MBLG?
Also, who elses taste should I consider when authoring pages?
Mark
--------------------------------------------
Date: 12 Apr 96 15:42:47 EDT
From: Pita
Subject: Re: what are you thinking?
To: mark@karmafarm.com (Mark Margaretten)
--- You wrote:
May I ask you why you visited MBLG?
Also, who elses taste should I consider when authoring pages?
Mark
--- end of quoted material ---
because when i saw a page with BITCH in the title i was
curious as to what it would be...the apology letter was
hysterical, and i was attempting to see if you had been
as clever in your approach for the other sex. instead,
you made out all females to be bitches. lovely. of course,
i am probably doing a lovely job of proving your stereotype
by harrassing you with e-mails now, but that would not have
been the case if you had simply made a female version of
the apology letter. i would probably have sent you a
compliment on both of your pages.
by taste i mean decency. a sense of people's basic
rights. if my little brother (he is ten) were to come
across your pages, he would think that men are at times
challenged with apologies, and need some help so you
made a page to humor and help. he would laugh. if he
were to open your bitch page he would read that women do
not apologize, they just bitch. they are rude, and crude.
he would probably still laugh as ten year olds will at
such things. that is a problem.
you need to think of your audience. anyone can read your
page--albeit on purpose or by accident. perhaps you could
add a disclaimer--you are going through a divorce and currently
bitter towards women. you could even say that we all know
certain women who do nothing but bitch. but to make the statement
that women (read all women) never apologize and to categorize us
all as bitches. that's disgusting.
--------------------------------------------
To: Pita
From: mark@karmafarm.com (Mark Margaretten)
Subject: Re: what are you thinking?
>--- You wrote:
>May I ask you why you visited MBLG?
>
>Also, who elses taste should I consider when authoring pages?
>
>Mark
>--- end of quoted material ---
>because when i saw a page with BITCH in the title i was
>curious as to what it would be...the apology letter was
>hysterical, and i was attempting to see if you had been
>as clever in your approach for the other sex. instead,
>you made out all females to be bitches. lovely. of course,
>i am probably doing a lovely job of proving your stereotype
>by harrassing you with e-mails now, but that would not have
>been the case if you had simply made a female version of
>the apology letter. i would probably have sent you a
>compliment on both of your pages.
Let me be clear... our dialog is interesting. But are
you feeding my stereotype? The jury is still out. At first
you were indeed "filling the role." You didn't like what I
had to say, and felt compelled to insult me and suggest
alternative action, ending with a thinly veiled treat... e.g.
"Obviously, you admit to your personal failing in saying that
you, Perhaps they do not apologize to you due to your huge
insensitivity and aggregious sense of humor. Take some advice
and scrap the page.. If nothing else, you won't get any more
nasty e-mails like this one."
So I thought... "bitch."
Then I thought... "but she has a point. Her interpretation is
right on the money. She's well spoken, and probably doesn't
drool in public, so keep talking with her. She's cool."
So I wrote back, telling you of my circumstances, and asking
a couple of questions which would reveal a little more about
a scrappy little student named after bread.
And what I got was an "Uncle Morty Sandwich" ..... a whole
lot of idealism with lots of cheese and a hot pepper on pita.
That's my kinda woman.
But it's finding women like you attractive that's killing
me. I married you. I dated you. Of course you're like all
the others... I don't notice the ones that aren't. This is
the human condition.
Another woman might have replied "... I want you to
know that some women do apologize, only those who
realize what they have and don't want to lose it. As
for the others, well I apologize. Hope that everthing
works out ok. If you need help coming up with ideas
for the exboyfriend letter let me know, I have plenty
of them (ex-boyfriends and ideas)."
Pardon me, another woman DID write this.
Consider the differences between you two.
She understands her circumstance, and takes responsiblity
for her life. She has EMPATHY, and INTROSPECTION. She is
not JUDGEMENTAL.
Your response was very different.
>"if he were to open your bitch page he would
>read that women do not apologize, they just bitch.
>they are rude, and crude. he would probably still laugh as
>ten year olds will at such things. that is a problem."
This is true, but not accurate. "That" is your problem, not
mine. You seem to prefer legislation to education. Why didn't
you show your 10 year old brother my page, and say "All women
aren't like this. Some are, but all aren't." Why didn't you
use this as an excuse to tell of him of respect, tolerance,
free thought, the pitfalls of life. Why wasn't this a shining
example of how not to be?
Because all people who respond to something objectionable
without first respecting the other's opinion do themselves
and those listening a disservice, by using their communicative
powers to present good ideas in extremism terms. It seems to
me that you had the oppurtunity to teach your brother something
important, and blew it. But in your world, it was my responsiblity
to know what you wanted to teach your brother and then to do so,
rather than your responsiblity from the start.
>you need to think of your audience. anyone can read your
>page--albeit on purpose or by accident. perhaps you could
>add a disclaimer--you are going through a divorce and currently
>bitter towards women. you could even say that we all know
>certain women who do nothing but bitch. but to make the statement
>that women (read all women) never apologize and to categorize us
>all as bitches. that's disgusting.
I refuse to consider my audience. I am not writing these pages
for them. I am not an artist. I cannot paint. I play a lousy
Blues Harp and I can't sing. I used to write, but even the
entire "beginning - end - closure" thing got old. I have the
Web. This is where my frustrations land. This is my art. Treat
the Web like a gallery. Look and reflect. Then learn through
instrospection. Don't judge the artist. Someone who's opinion
I respect once said to me,
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
I live by this stuff.
Why don't you and a couple of friends look at the entire
Karma Farm site. Look at the Doghouse, Karin's Page,
My Values (bet you missed that)... everything. And then discuss
the intellectual and social implications and theories I
represent. Humor isn't funny because someone makes it so.
Humor is funny because it's real.
"Take my wife.....
.........please."
Mark
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