Mail from the Masses


All kinds of Mail from the unwashed masses

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003
Subject: a few words of praise
From: "Adge" <akmccarthy@ucdavis.edu>

Please forgive me if this letter rambles a bit, or seems incomplete...I'm not yet completely sure of how I want this story to come out.

I've read your website for some time now, I find the articles both sagacious and entertaining. One page that I find myself repeatedly returning to is the "Red Flag List." I have more than once used these symptoms to diagnose someone who....didn't seem to act quite right, made me feel greasy. It's rather scary how accurate some of those examples are. (okay, enough ass-kissing, onto the story.)

I think the only thing more painful than being in an abusive relationship is watching someone in one defending it. It is truly scary. My roommate in the dorms last year was in a picture-perfect Wrong Type relationship. She: tall, thin, beautiful, ex-model--who had to quit because her parents found out about her bulimia. He: perfect body, masculine features, basketball player, ex-drug dealer, very, VERY controlling/"supportive".

After a couple months of watching her try to pander to his completely unreasonable requests ( I loved the one where he didn't want her to hang out with ANYONE, even her female friends...or when he'd call her up, and not say anything because he was mad at her....but wouldn't ever quite tell her why! Those were fun nights...) and wondering why she could never seem to please him, I got completely sick of it...decided to get pro- active...straight out listed the signs of abusive relationships, TOLD her when his behavior was abusive, even tried to enlist her friends help (yes, yes I KNOW that doing this never changes anything that doesn't want changing, but since I was forced to live with her for a year, I could at least TRY to stop her whinging...).

I never felt more sorry for her than when I forwarded her the "Red Flag List". She read the first few of them, smiled at me, saying, "Thanks, that's a good one!" before heading out to her friend's room. I didn't have the heart to tell her it wasn't a joke.

This point was driven home even more poignantly over this winter break when I was at home. I showed the List to my mother...who summarily began finding things that reminded her of my dad. I related to her the tale of my ex-roomie, after which she looked into my eyes and remarked that if I'd sent this to her a few years ago, while she was still married to him....she would have thought it was a joke, too.

I have always thought of my mother as Heartless Bitch material....a strong woman who isn't afraid to say no, won't back down when she knows she's right, refuses to let anyone else control her, sticks by her principles and is about to finish rearing her third daughter, and earning her first BA. It seems a rather frightening proposition, then, that such a woman-- any type of woman (okay, men too)--could be suckered into an unhealthy relationship by a stealthy, insidious snake of a person.

What this sorry anecdote is actually leading up to is a thank you. Thank you, staff of HBI, for having this website. Thank you for your attempt to point out the stupid, stupid, stupid games people play to please themselves, and for using the point-and-laugh technique for publicly shaming such childish behavior. Thank you Thank you for having a place on the web where some of us who wouldn't otherwise have this sort of guidance- -especially set out in such a clear, logical manner. I know this sounds like so much asslicking, but truly the ethics espoused on this site are so close to what I want to be, so many of the values I've adopted in my grand quest of Growing Up.

And when I'm fully grown, I hope to be a mature, responsible, confident and independent individual: a true Heartless Bitch.

--Jyxtrant



From: "Allegra" <SpriteDancer@msn.com>
Subject: thank you, you have helped me so much
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003

i cant thank you enough. my friend sent me the link to the Slimey Prick emails, i was laughing so hard. And after reading them, i explored the rest of your site. And I found the emotional abusers articles. how to recognize them, etc. and the "how to create an evil stepmother". so what im getting at is that i was emotionally abused by my father for my whole life. (Im 17 now). I stopped visiting him 2 years ago, after contemplating suicide b/c of what he did.

here's some background history of my dickhead father:
is an extreme fanatic of Judaism and used it as an excuse for "punishments". (I'm Protestant, my mom is also)
my mom kicked him out when I was in 3rd grade
mom divorced him same year (celebration!!!)
he married again 6 months later, I thought she was a bitch, but after she explained to me what happened after she kicked him out i forgave her. He did exactly what was written in the "How to Create An Evil Stepmother". did i mention the marriage wasn't even legal?
he married again 3 years later, and is still married with a 2 year old daughter! And he is doing again the evil stepmother fiasco again. But this time, she is actually mean. she is aggressive, sadistic, and a bitch. (in the bad way)
he is also very sadistic, but was and is still too cowardly to express it without his wife.
2 years ago, he asked me to visit to stay a week for Hanukkah, (even though im protestant, he just doesn't understand that) but I didn't want to. so i went over on Friday night, and after passing out presents for my extended family, my father, stepmother, the new baby ,my grandparents and my sister, my stepmother and father say in front of everyone that they were punishing me for not staying over for the week. they told me that they had told everybody to return their presents for me. And the most shocking thing is, everybody did it. I was so hurt that my father would do this to me and let his wife do this to me, that I almost jumped off my step-grandparents balcony on the second story.

Now that i have stopped visiting him, I feel my self confidence in myself grow. Im losing weight, my depression is going down every day, i dont take any shit from boys who try to control me (i.e: one of my ex guy friends (who also happens to be Jewish also) tried some emotional abuse and verbal abuse. Lets just say, he wasn't able to pee straight for several weeks) and im planning on changing my last name to my mothers maiden name legally when im 18.

Before I read the articles, I didn't know how to describe this problem with my friends. Just saying I was emotionally abused doesn't sound credible without an explanation, because i could never exactly pinpoint times when he did make me feel like im worth shit. And now after I read those articles, it has given me a voice to clearly describe what happened.

I have seen many therapists over the years, and i am seeing my favorite therapist in 2 weeks. i printed out the before mentioned articles, and i am going to be showing them to her. Maybe she can even use them for other patients who suffer from emotional abuse.

This has become my number one site, because it voices my opinions that i can never say in public without somebody telling me to shut up.

I really cant thank you enough.

-Allegra

(p.s: I'm not badmouthing Judaism, I have just had some very bad experience with it and want nothing to do with people who are fanatics of that faith.)



Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:21:59 EST
Subject: The Manipulator Files

Dear Heartless Bitches,

The Manipulator Files are so thorough. I've emailed portions of it to a few people who were/are in abusive relationships. Reading through all the various links was beneficial to me as well. It was confirmation of things I had gone through, as well as a reminder that I do NOT want that kind of person in my life again...not ever.

I spent a little over a decade married to an emotionally abusive and manipulative addict. I know that was a long time for me to tolerate his shitty behavior, however, I had my own issues back then, and marrying him was entirely my choice.

At the time that we married, I had little to no self-esteem. While that was certainly not his fault, he did use this to his advantage. He belittled me, and others, to make himself feel better. On some level I felt that I did not deserve better than to be treated badly. I really believe that, in part, this is why people put up with this type of abuse. I had to learn that I could not fix him,or change him. I had to realize that nothing I could do would change him either. I had to stop being a doormat and grow a spine. It was a hard life lesson, but I learned. Funny thing...we did not have "a marriage problem" until I stopped tolerating his crap.

The more confident I became, the more abusive he became. The more abusively he acted, the more I realized that, yes, I absolutely deserved better.

He chose partying and drinking over his wife and son. He made it very clear that this was not going to change. This was his choice. I'd have preferred that he had chosen to grow with me, but he did not. That is not what I wanted for my life, or for my son. Life with the addict was chaotic, at best. For me leaving, vs. staying with a person who refused to grow, won - hands down.

A week before we finalized in May 2001, he told a mutual friend "she will come to her senses and stop all this nonsense". Our friend told him, "Get real! She already HAS come to her senses."

I love this website. Everytime I check back, there is something new and interesting. It's one of the best, funniest, serious, sarcastic, and bitchiest (of course) sites I've seen. I have gone through and enjoyed so many of the links and forward them to people constantly. Thank you, HIB!

Julie



Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002
From: "Kaz Kylheku" kaz@ashi.footprints.net
Subject: Re: Warning: may contain heartless rant.

Here is some Chrismas cheer for you bitches.

I turned on the radio today (bad move, I know, especially around this time of year) and I heard something absolutely retch-inducing: a song about some boy who wants to buy shoes for his sick, dying mother, so that she could look her best when she meets Jesus. Of course the boy doesn't have quite enough money after counting all his pennies, so the song's big puffed up hero of a narrator opens up his wallet and puts down the cash. Bob Carlisle is a one unbelievably sick bastard.

This is worse than Hans Christian Andersen's story about the match-seller girl that froze to death. Worse than the story of that poor little mermaid that turned into foam out of unrequited love, because she was unable to open her mouth to show the prince that she owned a personality accompanied by virtues and that she wanted him. (Why would he want some illiterate waif who can't write him a letter, and is unable to convey her feelings using body language even?) The song is worse then Charles Dickens' disgusting story about an initially rationall and shrewd businessman who is scared by ghosts into giving away his wealth, who manipulate him into fear with visions of his future, and into guilt with vivid replays of his past, so that in the end he is crushed into a sappy lunatic. While on the subject of sappy stories, in that terrible ending of the Titanic movie plot, couldn't there have been just one more piece of flotsam for Jack to hang onto? With all that life-saving junk floating around, it had to be Rose or Jack over one particular piece of wood. (Yes, I fucking cried in the theatre, I will have you know, so despise me if you will).

[The disdain is for you having gone to see such a blitheringly saccharine film in the first place.]

I know what it means to be heartless---to be without that faculty which the idiotic masses *perceive* to be a ''heart'', namely the receptor for undeserved guilt, shame, fear and pain.

[OK. You win back some points for a savvy definition.]

(Note that the vacuous term ''heart'' has other hackneyed meanings. A brave warrior unwaveringly facing his enemies in the midst of a battle might be said to have the ''heart of a lion''; from this are derived terms like lionheart, braveheart. The character who seeks for a heart in _The Wizard of Oz_ is, not coincidentally, a lion, and that missing organt symbolizes courage. That particular shade of meaning has very little to do with giving away anything, other than maybe deep, mortal gashes with a bloody sword in the heat of an engagement).

The roots of guilt are deeply entrenched in my workplace. There was rencently a very successful collection for the local food bank. It's a good thing those poor people don't have to eat in July, right? How convenient that they only become destitute during Guilt Season.

[Funny, that.]

I wonder whether the non-producing parents of these children who benefit tell them where the goods came from. I know that, when I was a boy, if my parents had given me a toy that came from strangers, and which they could not have afforded, I would have loathed to play with it. It would just have been a painful reminder.

If you want me to feed someone else's children, send them to my house, so they can sit at my table and see that I'm a person. I'm not some faceless member of some segment of society that is responsible for their parents' predicament. If I feed them, I should also have the privilege and pleasure of interacting with them, and dispensing a few morsels of education too; if I could help them, however little, to avoid becoming their parents, *that* would be a good deed. Do you suppose their parents would agree to this arrangement? No, I will not anonymously drop something into some box somewhere, so that poor children can be misled about its origin.

[Not sure how much "education" you could provide in a single dinner... nor is it likely the *kids* would be receptive, never mind the parents.]

I can't stand Christmas any more; haven't been able to for years. Gee, let's all feel joy because the calendar says it's late December, not because we have anything to celebrate! Let's just achieve the *effects* of celebrating (copious booze helps here), and the missing *causes* for celebration will somehow materialize.

I like getting together, but there are some faces I'd rather see more often throughout the year, and others that I'd rather avoid with greater success. Bah, humbug!



From: somecrazycuckoobird@aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002
Subject: Always have some frosting with your cake.

My husband of 13 years has the smallest dick I've ever seen, but I love him to death. But to keep me happy, my boyfriend of 5 years has the biggest cock I've ever seen. My boyfriend constantly fucking me makes my husband think he's satifying me, what's wrong with that!

[Nothing, provided HONESTY wasn't a fundamental tenet of your married relationship. But then again, maybe HE's fucking the woman with the big breasts next door...]



From: "Az ur" az_ur@lycos.com
Subject: request
Hi.

I love the site.

[But... (can't ya just hear it coming?)]

However, I'm sick of the "I was once a patriarchal programmed she-bot and now I'm cured" ranting.

The Doormat Abby mantra "we don't need a man to be complete" deserves a mere "well fucking duh" reply. Not one synapses more.

Why do you insist on repeating it's redundancy?

[Because it's what people submit as part of some membership applications. We'd LOVE to have more articulate and varied apps, but the pickin's are pretty slim.]

I am glad these women clued in but the past is over. Awareness is one thing and comprehension is another. Let's all deal with right now.

[I think we have plenty of members who demonstrate that. Perhaps you need to read further...]

A true heartless bitch knows she's a bitch. She doesn't need any validation.

[Our members are aware of that. They post their apps for fun and to blow off steam. And the BitchBoard is a pretty cool place to hang out. What you perceive to be "validation seeking" may in fact be "looking for community and like-minded people".]

I'd rather hear from a person who achieved their goals than read advice for the stupid.

[But the stupid are so much FUN. And there are so MANY of them...]

Direction is a skill not just a point of reference for lost souls.

HBI.com has many other articles that are worth my while.

I know you will do as you please, it's your site. You know there are those of us that get it. We don't require any affirmations other than our own sense of self worth.

[Whatever turns your crank. As you may have surmised, we aren't seeking your approval.]

Thanks.

About me: I carry my own seal of approval. Plenty of aptitude and the attitude to go with it.

My name is Amber Zadworny. I'm 35 years old. I'm a student at the British Columbia Institute of Technology, here in Vancouver,Canada.

My current direction is to become a Sheet Metal Journey Person. I am an aspiring philanthropist. I am also a Veterinarian Technician.

My only dependant is my dog.

This is the E-mail service I use for all my correspondences.



JadeSyren (our Ruthless, Heartless BitchBouncer), Responds to "Fan" Mail

Dear Ms. Jade Syren:

I like your website.

[Thanks, I'll pass that along to the webmistress.]

I find the vast majority of your analysis insightful, witty, and correct.

[The stroke and slap method of critique. He's no amateur.]

I do, however, take issue with your definition of "Nice Guy." You said, "My definition of a genuinely nice guy is one who will treat everyone as an equal, and who DOESN'T EXPECT to get anything because of his nice behavior."

[I'll try to explain this to you.]

First of all, it is illogical to "treat everyone as an equal" because everyone is NOT equal. Judgment is how we discriminate between various choices. If we never judged one potential friend/mate better than another, then we would foolishly waste our time with all sorts of unsavory characters just to avoid judging them or treating them unequally.

[This is very true. However, I did NOT say that anyone should treat everyone EQUALLY, which is what you're talking about here. If you believe that each person you meet is your equal, that he or she is no better or no worse than you are, you shouldn't have a problem. What role they fill in your life is entirely a different matter.]

This idea is implicitly accepted by you in your comment, "There are a lot of women like me, too, but we stay away from guys like you." This idea that "everyone is created equal" is a fiction contrived by western, classical liberal (Locke, Paine, Jefferson) thought, and is anathema to tradition and common sense (the irony of Paine's title aside). Our Master Kong (the literal translation of Kong Fu Zi or "Confucius" in the Latin) said it best in Book 16 of his Analects:

"Those who are born with the possession of knowledge are the highest class of men. Those who learn, and so readily get possession of

[Personally, I'd like to meet someone who is BORN with knowledge. Certainly would be a smarty.]

knowledge, are the next. Those who are dull and stupid, and yet compass the learning, are another class next to these. As to those who are dull and stupid and yet do not learn; -- they are the lowest of the people."

"The superior man has nine things which are subjects with him of thoughtful consideration. In regard to the use of his eyes, he is anxious to see clearly. In regard to the use of his ears, he is anxious to hear distinctly. In regard to his countenance, he is anxious that it should be benign. In regard to his demeanor, he is anxious that it should be respectful. In regard to his speech, he is anxious that it should be sincere. In regard to his doing of business, he is anxious that it should be reverently careful. In regard to what he doubts about, he is anxious to question others. When he is angry, he thinks of the difficulties his anger may involve him in. When he sees gain to be got, he thinks of righteousness."

[You can drag out any quotes you'd like, but I'd hoped that you'd use something that would illustrate your points. What you've used so far points to a form of elitism, which is something that I did not get in what you were originally saying. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.]

With regard to your second point, namely, "a genuinely nice guy is one who...DOESN'T EXPECT to get anything because of his nice behavior," I must again disagree. Altruism is all fine and dandy, but when you keep doing nice things and never expect to get anything in return, it can make you into more a chump than a nice guy. A painful example of what

[I can understand why you don't get this one. You provide us with a fine example of it later in this letter. What the above quote means is not that you should give and give and give and expect nothing. What it means is that when you do choose to give, that you expect nothing. There is no subtlety in this distinction. It's pretty plain. You are combining an unhealthy behavior pattern with a healthy end result. This is what's confusing you. REAL(tm) Nice Guys (the kind that never whine to us) GET this, and they practice it. They don't give anything that they don't want to give, and when they do it, it's just for the act of giving alone.]

this kind of continuous selflessness can get you may be found here: http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/womensuck/Endgame.htm I would be interested to know your thoughts on this issue.

[I'm not that compelled to continue a conversation in that way. I'll discuss what is on our site, but I draw the line at discussing what's on his, especially since I'm not talking to HIM. If this were your site, it would be a different matter.]

You probably are curious as to how I would define a "Nice Guy." Well,

[No. I can see that you're one of our examples.]

I'm going to cheat a little and adapt my definition from NiceGuy's website (http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/womensuck/Me.htm). It's a bit lengthy, but I'm a big fan of wholism (looking at the big picture).

[I'm SO glad that you defined that for me. I thought you mean ASSHOLISM, (looking at the world through your rectum [damn near killed him]).]

[Snip excerpt he included from Womensuck.]

So, to summarize, a 'Nice Guy' is a guy who:

• thinks of and treats a woman as an equal partner

[Sure.]

• does nice things for people without expecting anything directly in return

[A nice guy does the right thing, without question, and without expecting anything for it, not even a "job well done." Nice guys know that there are no kudos for being a DECENT person.]

• does not continue to do nice things for people who take advantage of him and don't reciprocate (That would make him a chump.)

[Does not think of doing "nice things" as a social bargaining chip.]

• generally treats all people with respect and kindness

[Okay.]

• values truth and loyalty, avoids lying and betrayal

[Okay.]

• rejects greed as a motivating factor in his life

[??? Not sure why you specify greed.]

• has a fair amount of self-respect and self-confidence

[Good amount, and he doesn't need others to validate that.]

• has a good level of emotional maturity, i.e. manages his anxiety without reacting to it, never lets it consume his life-proactive in his approach to self-improvement

[A good level of emotional maturity, anyway. I'm sure that we react to anxiety, but the question is how, not to stop reacting.]

• knows when to take responsibility for his own failings...and when to blame others (balance is the key-a problem is rarely all any one person's fault)

[A nice guy doesn't really worry about blame. Who has time for that, anyway? By the time you've figured out who's to blame, he'd have stepped in and fixed it already.]

• will listen, communicate, and be a 'good friend' without expecting sex

[Love that you've got "good friend" in quotation marks.]

• expects that once she trusts him, a good female friend will give him a chance at a romantic relationship without irrational fears of it "ruining the friendship"

[Absolutely wrong. Women should be more than just a dating pool to you.]

These are just my initial thoughts. I am open to your suggestions and opinion.

Be well,

[I feel like I crossed into "Demolition Man."]

Ryan



Subject: Female Flame form : Andrea
To: nataliep@heartless-bitches.com

[Have I seen you around? Your whining sounds familiar.]

[I love this section of the form.]

Name: Andrea

monsters: Haley

shoesize: 3

MyBossMakes: 0000

AsIf: UT

copout: 10

indoctrinated: Baptist

priss: on

IAmALoser: on

[And Showtime:]

COMMENTS: I would just like to know what exactly is wrong with staying at home with your children?

[Me too.]

Maybe I have missed something on this site, but

[Maybe?]

the majority of comments I see on here, including memebers, is that they are "too strong" of a woman to be confined to Suburbia life raising kids.

[Those are their feelings. The great thing about Heartless Bitches is that there isn't a party line. People of all different backgrounds, all different persuasions, can find (or make) a niche here.]

Does it make you people less strong to bring up children in this world?

[If you're indicative of stay-at-home-moms, I can see why they aren't a majority here. The truth, Andrea, is that you have no idea how many members are over 50, or under 15. You don't know how many nurses, doctors, or felons we have. You don't know which of our members scuba-dive. Not every member chooses to define herself by her crotch, or the fruits of her crotch. I feel that women who DO this are pretty uninteresting people. Yes, it's nice to hear about your family IF it's relevant or funny or even interesting. I'm talking to YOU because I want to talk to YOU, not the kids, not the family, not the dog.]

My view is that a woman should be proud of her choices no matter what path she decides to leave. If you want to be successful in your own business, then more power to you. If you love working a 9-5 everyday,

[I think I've said this myself, so, YES, YOU have missed something.]

then great. If you have made the choice to leave your career to stay at home with your children, there is nothing wrong with that either. It is all about peronal choices. Not all stay at home moms are there because their domineering husband insists upon it.

[Where are you getting this shitpile? Probably from that high horse you're on.]

I had a great career. I worked my way through college and to the top. It was wonderful to feel the rush of accomplishment and success. I have been there and I have done that. When I decided to stay home, it was my choice. It was not because I was afraid to try. It was because I wanted to be the one to raise my child, not an institutionalized daycare. Yes, I do have the luxury of not being a single mother. I have a wonderful husband that I love.

[Yadda, yadda, yadda. There would almost have to be a husband in the picture, if you're a stay-at-home mom. See why you don't see a lot of this?]

He supports any decision that is important to me. If

[He's SUPPOSED to. This is not newsbreaking.]

he did not, then we would not have a lasting relationship. I know there are single parents that must send their children into someone elses care and their are women that prefer to work. To each her own. However, a

[There are women who HAVE to work. Are you sure that we haven't spoken?]

large percentage of stay at home mothers make their own choice in life to stay home and raise their children. It boggles me why they are all stereotyped into SUV driving, cookie making, PTA raffle selling soccer moms that wish they had a better life.

[That boggles me, too. Maybe this is a better stereotype of the stay-at-home mom who defines herself in this way, and only in this way.]

A womans choice is a womans choice. I have yet to see even one stay at home mom make it on the members list. I am sure there have been comments

[How would you know? The interesting ones don't advertise.]

by these women that blow away some of the streotypical "I'm childfree, worked my way up the ladder and proud" comments that were not so good at all.

[Well, if you're going to be sour-grape-y about it, it's probably correct that I bounced you.]

It's wonderful to be childfree if that is your choice! It also wonderful to have and raise children. This website is supposed to be about strong women who have their own thought and opinions, or so I thought.

[It doesn't seem to me that you do much thinking. You're too busy being offended.]

It seems to me however, this site is a little biased. Maybe I am only stay at home mom that has written here not trying to cram my lifestlye down every other womans throat.

[Hello? No, that's why you can't tell which ones ARE stay-at-home moms. They feel that their personal life is THEIR business.]

This lifestyle is not for all.
However, that doesn't make me weak.

[No, being a stay-at-home mom doesn't make you weak. Being an easily offended idiot who doesn't check her facts makes you weak.]

I am still the same strong individual
I have always been, staying at home or not.

[If it gets you through the night.]





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